Marketing Big Shots – Interview – Ross Crooks


Ross Crooks, Co-Founder and Chief Creative Officer for Visage shares what they’re doing with their new content creation tool and his wider view of content marketing trends.  Good conversation, thanks Ross for spending a few minutes.  Full transcript of the conversation is below.

Chris:              I’m here with Ross Brooks.   Ross, what’s your title with Visage?

Ross:              I am the co-founder and our chief creative officer, so I oversee product and design.

Chris:              Okay. I thought it’d be interesting just to spend some time learning more about what you do at Visage. Full disclosure, we’re actually using the Visage tool and early stages, really liking it and getting a lot of value out of it. Thought it would be great to to get Ross on the phone and talk a little bit more about what they’re doing with Visage and some of his insights on the content marketing space. Maybe a good place to start, Ross, is just give us the elevator pitch on Visage.

Ross:              Visage is a design tool that enables marketers and communication people to create beautiful on-brand visual content quickly and easily. Essentially, what we’re looking to do is kind of capture a brand unique visual element, so their fonts and their color palettes and their unique style within the platform to make it really easy to stay consistent with all the contents they’re creating, and to be able to do that without having to pull design resources from other parts of the company.

Chris:              Sounds great. That’s a good tight elevator pitch. What’s the profile of the kinds of customers that are using the tool now, whether it’s industry or maybe what’s the typical team looks like that may be using the tool?

Ross:              We don’t see a whole lot of trends in terms of specific industries. People are kind of adopting content marketing all over the map and finding value in communicating their original editorial insights.

As far as the users, it’s mostly in the marketing department or the communications department, so the people that are generally commissioned in creating a lot of visual content, whether that be social media manager that’s responsible for publishing and wants to make sure that every post is eye-catching and as attractive as possible, or whether that’s writers or even designers using the tool to create content more quickly for their blog, email newsletters, that kind of stuff. Maybe even some reports and things like that that they publish, we see pretty frequently.

The general positions are social media manager, marketing manager, communications team, those types of people.

Chris:              Are you seeing any kinds of patterns within that? I know with the tool and for those that are listening that aren’t familiar with the tool, it’s a great tool and allows you to create charts and infographics and other things. What are you seeing in terms of patterns? Are people leaning more toward kind of chart-type infographics? Are people doing more image with quotes sorts of things? What kind of trends are you seeing in terms of how people are actually using the tool?

Ross:              For a little bit of context, the main content types that can be created within this tool right now are focused primarily on micro content at this stage, so that would be very short-form things. It could be included in the social post or embedded within a blog article or newsletter that would just kind of complement a visual appeal and context to whatever the text elements are, and the content types that we’re focused on it right now are really simple chart creators, so people can express original data insights, or found data insights from whatever research study that they’re looking at, and then kind of editorialize that.

Then there’s also a really simple kind of text graphic creator where you could overlay a nice typographic quote on top of a filtered image, or it could be just a customer testimonial, or some sort of … Any sort of text treatment on top of the photos. We’ll be expanding that over time to increase more layouts and more content types.

In terms of trends, it kind of seems like people are in one of two camps. They’re really either coming because … What we try to create is something that really is simple to create charts, so my background is with an agency called Column Five, which we started about 6-1/2 years ago, and we were one of the first companies that started creating infographics for marketing purposes. Having kind of pioneered that format and that use of infographics, we find that communicating original data is a really powerful tool for any marketing content, so that’s why our creation tool was one of our first content solutions.

What we’ve sought to do is, we kind of understand the profile of the marketer much different than that of the analyst or the researcher that’s dealing with data and data analysis all day long, in that a lot of marketers are not extremely data literate. They kind of read their analytics and that sort of thing, but in terms of slicing and finding the original insight and then knowing how to visualize that correctly, that still hasn’t fully evolved in a lot of marketers yet, so our goal is really to kind of improve the marketers data literacy and enable them and empower them to create that content pretty quickly and easily.

Education is a big part of that in being able to educate them on what are different data structures in the simplest way, and what chart type is best for those things, and what are the best practices around creating those things? We sought to kind of include that within the app and to make that process really simple and straightforward, because most database tools or chart creation tools can get quite complex very quickly, so we try to keep that really simple.

We’re seeing a lot of adoption in that because it’s kind of made it a thing that’s been out of reach for a lot of people really straightforward and simple and fast to create.

Chris:              Do you think that some marketers, and you touched on this kind of data literacy issue, do you think that marketers aren’t as data literate? Or do you think that they just don’t really have the design savvy to understand how to extract the most meaningful visual strategy on top of data?

Ross:              I think that’s true. There’s an intersection of those two challenges, which is there’s finding that insight and then there’s blogging it in a way that’s not only accurate but also compelling. I think that there is a difference between the analysis portion, which I think marketers are fairly savvy at, with being able to kind of identify trends and identify an interesting story, but the visualization of that has typically lay somewhere outside of their core responsibilities, but we are hearing from a lot of people that the education, like the tips and things that are within the app, are some of the most valuable things to them, because they’re not quite sure what chart type to use or what best practices are for each chart type. That is something that we’re hearing a fair amount.

Chris:              You guys have done a really nice job with that, actually. I know just from using the tool myself, that’s been super helpful. Another thing that isn’t in the tool yet, and maybe it’s not appropriate to ask, but I’m curious if you have any ideas or suggestions on kind of volume and frequency? That’s a question that we get often is, there’s this almost kind of compulsion now for marketers to be feeding the content beast and just constantly cranking out this huge volume of material, and that’s a huge challenge. I’m just curious that what you’re seeing in terms of a pattern for how people are approaching this kind of volume and frequency issue.

Ross:              It’s interesting, and it’s certainly a challenge that’s kind of facing everyone which is, it really is kind of the more the better stage, but I think I would also qualify that with the fact that creating content that’s not original or kind of syndicating or re-blogging content, it has a diminishing return. I do think that quest for higher volume, higher frequency, also has to be balanced by making sure that your content is meaningful and that it’s interesting and that it actually is going to have an impact; otherwise, people are going to tune out.

That’s kind of one of the things that we’re really preaching heavily, and what I think is so interesting about the opportunity for data individualization is that your internal data, your internal insights that come from that data, the portions of that that can be internalized really is marketing bold because you’re able to tell a story that no one else has, and that obviously establishes your leadership in the industry if you’re able to communicate that well versus using the same Nielsen or Gartner few studies that relates to your industry that everyone else in your industry is also putting out and putting their original spin on it, so being able to kind of identify those original insights is really valuable.

The challenge, as you stated, is it’s not easy to come up with those sort of interesting stories that are really high volume. That’s kind of what I think has to be the connection between kind of the analyst, the data analysis department that’s typically feeding business strategy, but that should also be feeding the marketing department with those original insights, and I think that’s how you can start solving the volume problem.

In terms of the use that we’re seeing in the app, for some of those original data stories, it seems like the frequency for kind of our core base of active users is somewhere between every 3 to 8 days, someone’s coming back in and creating something new with fresh data.

Chris:              That’s great. Maybe grossly over-simplifying, but roughly on average once a week kind of posting with that?

Ross:              Yeah, that’s kind of what we’re seeing, and I think that’s kind of what we’re pinning our value to. I think if someone can come in and we can make that process easy once a week, then I think we have a pretty valuable product. I hope that we’re able to increase that as we add more content types and [inaudible] the app, increase it, I think that they can use it for more things to create different types of content, I think it would be a more valuable tool and used more frequently.

Chris:              I know everyone’s always looking for the content silver bullet. What’s the one piece of content that’s going to be completely game-changing, or really take off? Are you seeing anything within your client base that’s really breaking through? Maybe there isn’t anything that’s really heads above everything else, but are you seeing anything, any particular application or style of content that’s being created through the tool that’s really taken off?

Ross:              I don’t think we’ve seen anything kind of since the initial infographic way in terms of just a format that’s really blowing up. I mean, I think that in customer marketing in general, obviously there’s some trends, maybe even Internet content in general, but people are latching onto things like this, and they’re a little more engaging with similar activities, but I think it’s really kind of distributed to the point where it’s really about finding the format to suit the story you’re trying to tell, and I think the thing that’s … Outside of what I’ve talked to you on just about every single data insight, I think being able to combine that quantitative insight with really focusing on brand authenticity and understanding how your content aligns with your brand’s mission and purpose; being able to tie those things together both kind of the qualitative of communicating authentic and consistent and purpose-driven message with the hard quantitative kind of numerical data side of things and finding original insight in that, that can be kind of like the perfect combination of where your content marketing should be.

Chris:              That is a struggle to get all of those ingredients kind of in the right proportion into your content strategy. That’s tricky. What are you seeing with just challenges of content creation in general? I know you touched on it earlier. Is it just resource and scale? Or is it people struggling to kind of know what their story is? What are you seeing in terms of the biggest challenges people are having when they come to you?

Ross:              Quite a few things. I would say that scale is certainly an issue, and people are trying to solve that more and more by outsourcing. But as you outsource, you also get further and further from that brand authenticity and purpose, so that’s a challenge if you’re working with multiple vendors across the globes to sell your content. That can get a little bit fragmented, which can start to detract from the impact of the message.

I think a lot of it is just access to the resources to create, so once again, that’s something that people are outsourcing more, but with the various social channels, and every new one that comes out, and the pressure to kind of optimize for each of those in a unique way to create content for each of those can be a little bit overwhelming.

Usually internal … That content probably also needs to be increasingly visual in order to capture attention and to capture the unique brand style, and designer resources typically are better dedicated to the product or to the larger marketing initiatives, can be bothered to be pulled into creating simple images for tweets or another social post, so that’s kind of the problem that we’re looking to solve [inaudible] put tools in the hands of the people that are managing those things to be able to just create quickly and easily without having to leverage the long timelines and extents that they’re associated with custom design.

Chris:              You’re really seeing your tool … It’s in the mix, it’s an asset. It’s certainly not a replacement for anything. It’s just a complement to the way people are handling that now.

Ross:              Yeah, definitely. The way that we think about it still having content creation studio there will always be plenty of high uses for designers to create really engaging interesting custom content. We’re just kind of trying to automate some of the low end of that to remove some of the production work from that, and typically that barrier has been a little bit, that technical barrier has been a little bit to create those kinds of things, because things like the Adobe Creative Suite are fairly difficult to master and to learn for the average person that doesn’t have a design background, and kind of simplify some of those tools.

Chris:              It’s actually surprisingly hard to make things that simple, isn’t it?

Ross:              Indeed, yeah.

Chris:              What do you think … And just to kind of close things out, Ross, a little bit, what, to the extent that you can share without disclosing more than you’re comfortable, what’s next for Visage? What can we look forward to in terms of new features or new functionality? What’s coming up?

Ross:              It’s good things. In the short term, we’re focused on creating a template better optimized for specific publishing platforms to make it really easy to create original content for the areas or channels that you’re publishing in. That’s a big one.

The other is, we’ll be kind of moving toward more customization for the brand specifically, so being able to create custom templates for specific brands so that the content that they’re creating really captures that with their unique visual style, so we’ll be doing a lot more of that, that’s kind of setting … Taking branding even further and setting them up and having their visual content be completely unique.

Chris:              Fantastic. What’s kind of the next big milestone? Is there a big release scheduled? Are there any other big product milestones coming up?

Ross:              Yeah, we’re pretty fluid, actually, with our release schedule, so we have things going out multiple times a week that are live and people are using them. The last couple of weeks we just made a big push, and I just sent a big update yesterday, that launched a template, and more team collaboration, being able to get different members of the team to share that brand account with your style in there, and a few of those things, but most of the stuff we’ve kind of broken up to be pretty fluid, so we’ll just be rolling out features steadily over the next few months.

Chris:              That’s exciting. Looking forward to using some of those ourselves. Thank you, Ross, for making some time this morning, and for anyone listening, this is just a great tool. We’ve certainly had a great experience with it, and it sounds like there’s some great stuff on the road map. Thanks, Ross, very much for jumping on with me this morning, and I appreciate your time.

Ross:              Yeah, thank you, Chris. I appreciate you having me.

Get Your Automation Ferrari Out Of The Garage

A client recently shared their frustration about not getting the full potential from their marketing automation technology, describing it as “Not being able to get their Ferrari out of the garage.”  They weren’t trashing the vendor or the technology, they were mostly venting about how their company struggled to get out of it’s own way […]

Marketing Automation and Content Strategy Research

We’re excited to release the results of our research from the Fall on the intersection of marketing automation and content strategy.  There’s no shortage of content and material on each of these topics individually,  we wanted to explore specifically how marketers were thinking about the integration of marketing automation technology and the challenges of content marketing.

One of the big headlines from the research is that 73% of marketing automation users in the survey felt a better understanding of customer journey would help them get more value from their marketing automation investment.  The benefits of improved customer journey insight go far beyond just marketing automation, but a very compelling response about the potential direct impact on technology value.

The full report is available for free at this link or click on the image below.  Thanks again to everyone who participated, more research to come later this quarter.

Marketing Automation and Content Strategy research

Uberflip Your Content Marketing

Hana Abaza, Director of Marketing at Uberflip joined me late last week for a quick conversation about Uberflip.  I was prompted to find out more after hearing them named as a company doing some interesting things in content marketing.  Audio file and full transcript of the conversation below.  Thanks Hana for sharing the overview.


Chris:              Today I’m speaking with Hana Abaza from Uberflip. Hana, thanks for joining me today.

Hana:             Happy to be here. Thanks.

Chris:             I came across Uberflip in an article that was calling out what they were calling next-generation marketing automation/content marketing tools and technologies. Spent some time on your site, you guys are doing some really interesting stuff and I thought you might just take a couple minutes and tell us in your own words what you’re doing at Uberflip and how it’s unique and different.

Hana:             Yeah, absolutely. At Uberflip, we’re really focused on two things. We’re focused on helping marketers create their slick, front end experience for all of their content, and then, on the back end of that, we’re focused on giving marketers the tools they need to actually leverage their content to generate leads, so we start off by helping you aggregate your content that will connect to your blog articles, your social media content, video, even ebooks and white papers.

We’ll pull them all into what we call a content hub, and then, we’ll give you the tools to actually create, to include call-to-action elements within that hub, forms to date content. All of that really connects with your marketing automation tool, whatever you might be using, MailChimp, HubSpot, Marketo, Pardot, et cetera, to really create a seamless experience.

When somebody lands on your content hub, they might fill out a form for lead generation, that will automatically get sent over to your marketing ecosystem, whatever that might be, and from there, you can trigger whatever you need to in order to nurture that lead. As much as we focus on creating that great look and experience, the magic really comes in when we’re taking a look at those lead generation tools that we really provide for marketers.

Chris:              A very basic question, how would I integrate Uberflip with my existing website?

Hana:             That’s a great question, so there’s actually several different need cases for it. One of the most popular things that we see is marketers coming in and wanting to maybe revamp something like a resource center on their site. Most B2B companies, especially when you go on their website have some sort of a resource center or learning center, which is full of content, like ebooks, videos, maybe blog articles. Generally speaking, most of them are pretty sketchy looking. They look like they were designed in 1995.

What we do is we can actually power that resource center. You can implement it a couple of different ways. You can either have a link to your resource center in a top navigation and you can link out to your hub, which can fit externally or you can take your hub and you can just embed it directly within your website, so when somebody clicks on resource center, they go to that page within your site and your content have it embedded there.

Chris:              Well, that’s great. Now, that makes a lot of sense. Talk about multi-platform, so does Uberflip automatically do any kind of optimization of your content from multiple platforms? Talk about that a little bit.

Hana:             A hundred percent, so when we’re taking a look at Uberflip, it is, well, number one, it’s a 100% responsive. Regardless of where you’re looking at a content hub, whether it’s on your mobile device, on your tablet, on a big a screen, it’s going to look fantastic. That was first and foremost, because we all know how much we’re sacrificing in terms of conversion rates and engagement when somebody hits a content experience that’s not optimized for mobile.

I promise you, you’ll sacrifice things in major dollars there, and that’s something we’d really take in into account in terms of optimizing the experience for not just the marketer but for the end user as well.

Chris:              In looking at your site, I noticed something interesting that I’ve not ever seen with any technology provider yet is you guys have this Flipbook functionality, where you can turn PDFs into Flipbooks. Can you talk a little bit about that, both what the feature is and also what led you to develop a feature like that? That’s kind of an interesting innovative thing.

Hana:             You know what’s funny, is Flipbooks was actually our core product initially. Before we actually rebranded to Uberflip and kind of expanded from just a tool to a content marketing platform. Flipbooks was what we did, so essentially, what flipbook is, is it allows publishers, content marketers, anybody that’s got any sort of PDF content, like a magazine or catalog, or brochure, an ebook or white paper.

We allow you to take that PDF and convert it into what we call a flipbook, which is far more interactive than a boring PDF. When you convert something to a flipbook, you then have the ability to embed videos directly within that content. Imagine a video within your white paper that just plays for you.

You have the option to add call-to-actions and additional links, and the real, real sort of magic behind the flipbook is the metrics that you actually get from it. If you’ve got a PDF that’s there, you’re really not going to get any feedback in terms of how people are engaging with it, whereas with a flipbook, you know how far they’ve read in the flipbook, which pages they’re reading, where they’re zooming in, which videos they’re playing.

It’s actually, I can’t even … I don’t even remember how many metrics we have available for flipbooks, but I think it’s 30 different metrics that you can look at to determine how engaged people are with your actual flipbook. That is definitely something that’s unique to the Uberflip platform.

There are other companies that will do sort of the social media aggregation in the content aggregation piece, but none of them have the flipbooks component which actually help turn PDF content into something much more engaging and very few of them also focus on lead generation, so the lead gen piece is definitely the other big piece which makes it as cool for a not just resource center but we use it for sales enablement, we use it for events, we use it for so many other things.

Chris:              I just thought that it’s really, really great and so many companies have so much great content but locked up in PDFs and flipbooks make it more interesting. On your site, there’s a number of customers that you call out, I’m curious from your perspective, who are the customers that are doing some of the coolest stuff with Uberflip?

Hana:             There’s a couple, so, there’s a company called Monetate, really cool company, very niche. They do personalization software for marketers essentially, so if you go to a website and they know who you are, they can personalize the copy on that website for you. They’re doing some very cool things. If you go to, you click on their resource center, that’s all powered by Uberflip. They got some great content up there, and they’re really leveraging the call-to-actions really well.

I know Monetate, they do this quarterly where they’re releasing the e-commerce quarterly. I actually tested that flipbook, those behind a traditional landing page, which is how you see most content data these days, and then they tested it behind on Uberflip call-to-action where we gauge the piece of content for them and I actually saw 250% increase in conversion rates with our platform. Really cool to see that and really cool to see a company that’s actually testing those things.

So many companies don’t actually have a really good pulse on their metrics when it comes to that stuff. The other company that’s doing some great stuff. Actually, there’s two more that I’ll mention to you. A company called Captora, which is also in the content marketing space. They had an awesome director of marketing, Dina is her name, and she put together a killer content hub. The last one I’ll point you to, there’s so many good ones to choose from. Let’s say

I think most of us are familiar with They’re basically a marketplace for all these great visuals and infographics. Their content hub is one of the top-scoring hubs we have, so one of the features we have in our platform is we actually provide you with a content score for every single piece of content so you could see how each score is performing relative to the number of subscribers or leads that generating. Depending on what your goals are.

Visually is one of the top ranking ones across all of our customer base, so they’re definitely doing some cool stuff.

Chris:              That’s great. I know you just mentioned a couple of metrics, but is there any kind of a general metric that you have? Let’s just take marketing automation users. People who are using marketing automation that use your hub versus people who are using automation and not using your hub. What kind of a lift are you seeing just generally with people who are using Uberflip in terms of the performance of their content? Do you have any metrics around that?

Hana:             We have micrometrics around how people are using like the Monetate example that I gave you. In terms of lead generation, we’re actually working with customers now to get some of their metrics. We have some internally that unfortunately I can’t share, because customers shared it with us in confidence, but yeah, we are definitely seeing a lift.

The majority of that really comes down to the content experience, so remembering that most of these people are going from a content marketing that’s very 1995 to a content marketing hub that is designed to up engagement. It’s very visual and it has all of the lead gen tools that you need there. I don’t know if you checked it out, but if you go to our hub, there’s a blog article. We actually did an analysis of a hundred marketing software blogs and we basically did an analysis of their content experience and how good it was.

We did it based on a few different criteria like, for example, whether or not it has a call-to-action, whether or not the content was matching the buyer persona, whether or not it had any visuals included, so really a list of criteria that really focus on the experience.

This is marketing software blog, so you would think that being in the marketing industry, they do have a better pulse on it, but you’d be surprised at how poorly the vast majority of these blogs make in terms of their experience. It was hard to find things. It was hard to give them any information. You couldn’t sign up for anything. You didn’t know where to go next.

It really does come down to the experience first and foremost and the bar has definitely been raised. When you take a look at all of us interacting online, and I mean whether we blame Pinterest for this or not, everything online is much more visual, every experience online is much more interactive. If you’re a marketer, whether it’s B2B or B2C and you’re not leveraging that, you’re definitely sacrificing a lot in terms of conversion rates, dollars and gross.

Chris:              You guys are doing some really, really great stuff. I appreciate you taking a few minutes to share what you’re up to and giving everyone a little flavor for what you’re doing at Uberflip. Thank you so much, Hana.

Hana:             Yeah, no problem at all. Thank you, Chris.

Systym at Utah Eloqua User Group Event

Systym was thrilled to be invited as a presenter to the inaugural Utah Eloqua User Group event.  The kickoff event, held at the beautiful new Xactware facility, was an opportunity to meet and greet local Eloquans and share marketing automation and content marketing stories and ideas.  Thanks to Matt Miller and Mark Freestone for getting the event pulled together and thanks to all those who joined us for a great afternoon.  If you’re interested in joining the group and staying informed on upcoming activities, you can join the group at the following link.

Interview with Outmarket CEO You Mon Tsang

Big news in the marketing technology world was the recent spin-off of the marketing automation unit of Vocus into a new company OutMarket.  Leading this newly formed entity is CEO You Mon Tsang.  You Mon was kind enough to take a few minutes from his hectic post-launch schedule to speak with me about the launch and the OutMarket perspective on the marketing automation space.  Below is an audio recording and transcript of our conversation.  (Apologies for the quality of the audio).


Chris:              Let me just kick off by thanking you for joining me. OutMarket had a huge launch this last week spinning off from Vocus. I appreciate you taking some time to speak to me this morning. Let’s just dive in. Marketing automation is a super noisy category right now, lots of players, lots of activity, very difficult to keep up with. How do you see what you’re doing at OutMarket really differentiating from some of the other things that are happening in the space?

You Mon:       Of course, thanks for having me. Let me start by saying that while I think the marketing automation space can be noisy, the other thing I would also say is that it’s also nascent. If you think about the number of customers who could use marketing automation actually using marketing automation, that penetration is low. We hear a lot of noise because some of the early adopters are in the spaces that are noisy, whether we’re getting that from the tech space, software space. When we look at companies that are under $500 million in revenue, the penetration of marketing automation is less than 10%. The growth is all ahead of us.

When you think about it even the large players in the space, whether they’re public companies, like Marketo or Vocus was, nobody was more than $150 million dollars revenue from their automation. We are all small players. There was not a size company. There was no Oracle size company. There are no billion dollar companies out there. While it’s noisy, I would say it’s very early. What makes us different?

Specifically, we’re trying to provide integrated marketing automation for the marketing teams who don’t have the resources, whether that’s budget or technical resources to put in what I would call one of these early enterprise marketing automation systems. I think those systems can be out of reach for the vast majority of folks out there and that’s what we’re focused on.

Chris:              What do you think has been the barrier to adoption of marketing automation technology, is it a resource constraint? Is it price driven? What do you think is the reason that a lot of these folks haven’t, at the smaller end of the scale, adopted marketing automation yet?

You Mon:       You do bring up 2 major barriers and I’ll bring up a third. Now, I guess all 3. You bring up price. You bring up resources. I’ll also bring up just a lack of awareness of what it is. Let me start with the third one. I’m going to date myself. About 15 years ago I was in the business intelligence and analytic space. Back then data was sort of a back office type of activity and if you wanted to really understand how your business was doing you would talk to an analyst. You didn’t really have a lot of data.

Certainly today nobody would believe, everyone believes that they should have access to data, but back then people didn’t know they really needed to do it and they had no idea how they would do it. There was a real lack of awareness of what they were supposed to do. Marketing automation is in that same place now. You talk to a typical marketer, of course they’ve heard of marketing automation, but they’re still trying to figure out what it is and that really speaks to the sub 10% penetration rate that I was talking to.

Now the more practical matters is certainly price is an issue. Currently many of these marketing automation systems out there today can get into 6 figures and that’s certainly out of reach for many companies. Resources, if you think about the early marketing automation systems they were fairly technical. Some of them required you to drop in HTML. Some of them had to think about work flow, or possibly supporting with a dedicated programmer.

A lot of them would lead you to get into your website, dig around, and play with some HTML. Those early systems are harder for many people to use. They do not have either the technical resources or in fact the ability to hire a specialist to do that. I think those are the biggest issues. I think that you’re seeing a lot of companies, OutMarket being one, trying to solve that problem.

Chris:              A dynamic that we’ve seen is companies who get excited about marketing automation and will spend the money for a solution. Then a year later or a couple years later, come to the realization that they’ve spent a lot of money on something that they’re still primarily using the same way they used an old batch and blast email solution. Have you seen that dynamic? If so, I’m curious what you guys are planning to do at OutMarket to proactively get in front of that.

You Mon:       There’s an old term called shelfware, which is a little harder to talk about when it comes to software in the cloud, but you buy the software and you end up just putting it on the shelf and never really using it for whatever reason. We’ve certainly seen our share of that. I would say because I still think we’re early, we see more people who’ve never used marketing automation than we do people who are sort of been bitten by marketing automation. You speak the truth. If you do not have a plan to use marketing automation, you won’t get the most out of it.

How do we try to address this concept of people buying marketing automation and not doing anything with it? We’re doing a few things. One is in the software we wanted it to be very easy to implement. If you need to integrate with other systems, you just go into a wizard. If you are producing an email newsletter or a landing page, we offer you templates out of the box. It makes it easier for you to create a beautiful looking landing page. If you need to integrate with your blog or your website, we make it as easy as it would be to put Google Analytics in there. One, just make the software easy to implement and easy to use.

Also, we know that out of the chute we want our folks adopting our software. We actually have a launch team whose only job is to make sure at the end of your launch that you do have your system up and running, that you’ve sent out your first email or sent your first press release. We offer that. Or put up your first landing page, get your contacts in there, and perhaps even get a work flow going. When you see the first bit of automation working it just gets the customer excited to do more and really adopt it.

Chris:              Have you seen any particular trigger event or any kind of a common scenario that tips someone from not using an automation solution to using one?

You Mon:       The one thing we do try to focus on is helping our clients increase their lead database, or their contact list. If we can show that through a better landing page you can convert people coming to your site to sign up, to learn more about your company, having that number pick up is often the most impactful thing that we can do in the very short run for our clients. There are many ways to do that. One is increase your conversion rates, optimize a form with a better form, but also one of the other things that we focus on at OutMarket is we focus on generating leads and generating awareness.

We have, unique to us, this is from our heritage Vocus, we have access to press releases, which allows you to get your news out in a way that you may not have been able to with just a blog. We have a very strong social recommendation engine that actually tells you who’s influential in spaces so you can start connecting with them. We have Buying Signals, which is really helping you find folks in social who are interested in your product or service. Between that, as well as what you would know as more typical marketing automation, which is optimizing forms and optimizing lead conversion, we want to increase the number of people that show up in your contact list.

Chris:              Are you saying that’s a key metric that you’re seeing a lot of your clients, that’s something that’s definitely one of their KPI’s is just growing the size of their contact list?

You Mon:       Like most good marketers, their bottom line is the same as the company’s bottom line. If you’re a for profit company it’s all normally sales, revenues, or whatever you want to call it, whatever is important to you. If you’re membership driven, then it’s more members. If you’re not for profit, maybe it’s more donations.

The way you get there is just to get more people interested in what you have to offer, the product and service you have to offer. The marketer wants to see more and more people interested in what they have to offer. The idea is to convert them into a sale or into a member or into a donor.

Chris:              How would you characterize the most successful of your clients? What are those companies doing that maybe others aren’t in their use of the automation solution?

You Mon:       Our most successful clients really focus on all parts of the customer journey. Marketing automation, at least the early systems, have been focused on data fact side, which meant that I don’t know how you’re getting awareness. I don’t know how you’re generating your leads, but once you’ve done that, our marketing automation system will grind those leads, nurture them, and convert them. I would say that part goes further down the journey.

That’s of course very important because you want to convert people who actually expressed interest to people who are actually customers of yours. Our system certainly does that as well, but if you don’t focus on all parts of marketing you’re not going to be near as successful. Our most successful clients, many of them have been very successful in generating more awareness for their product and service, communicating with folks who become a prospect.

Then also work the lead, converting them, nurturing them, hoping they become a client. Those folks who really spend the time thinking about the entire journey, they tend to be happier, more successful clients.

Chris:              We see that as well when people who holistically, it’s definitely an old idea. 360 marketing, that’s not a new idea, but people who really think that way and really try to execute that way, that does still make a huge difference.

You Mon:       That’s right. It’s all bottom line. The bottom line, I’ve told this to many of my colleagues in the marketing space, is that the closer that any of our systems can, say that we generate whatever the bottom line is, sales, donations, members, the better off we are, the closer to success that we can be and the more likely we have people reaching to use the system.

Chris:              I appreciate you spending time. Just a last question for you here this morning, obviously it sounds like where you’re seeing a huge opportunity is with companies who have not yet adopted a marketing automation solution. That is clearly where you’re seeing a lot of the blue sky opportunity. What counsel would you provide to a company who has thought about it but hasn’t yet made the jump? What would you tell a company that was in that space?

You Mon:       We talk to these folks everyday, these people who have not made the jump to marketing automation. The math for marketing automation can be very simple. If you’re a marketer, you’re probably thinking about what kind of impact can my marketing department have on the business if I generate 5% more leads, more prospects. What impact can my marketing department have if my conversion rate from someone who had showed interest to someone who became a customer increases 10%?

If you can do that math and say, “Hey, well, if both those things happen, what’s my impact on the business?” Therefore, the investment that I’m making for a marketing automation system that can help me get there would be worth it. Unlike a lot of marketing tools where the ROI can feel elusive, you can make the case for marketing automation on paper. It’s a simple spreadsheet that you can then sell to yourself, sell to the CMO, or if you need to sell to your CFO. I think it can be a fairly straightforward process. I would recommend anyone who is on the verge of making the step, just think about it that way. It can be a very simple math problem.

Chris:              You Mon, thank you so much for spending some time today talking to me about this. Congratulations on the launch and we’ll be excited to see how things evolve in the space and with OutMarket over the coming weeks and months.

You Mon:       Thanks Chris, I appreciate it. It’s a very exciting stage, despite the noisiness. I think we all, even in this space, expect huge growth over the next 5 to 10 years.

Chris:              Absolutely, thanks again.

You Mon:       You’re welcome.

Systym and Hudson Printing – A New Era In Customer-Centric Communication

Systym has established a partnership with Hudson Printing, a company doing amazing things at the intersection of print and digital.  The work we do at Systym with personas, customer-centric messaging and content strategy is a perfect fit with the variable data digital printing services at Hudson Printing.  At Systym we believe understanding your audience and their context and delivering exactly the right message at the right time is the key to effective communication.  The message maps and other deliverables from a Systym engagement can become the foundation for a completely customized communication, or series of printed communications, created and delivered by Hudson Printing.

Hudson Printing is reinventing print, and we love that.  The days of the stodgy, old-school printer is gone, the new era of print is digital-savvy, connected and highly personalized.  Systym structures the story, Hudson Printing delivers the story.  A powerful combination.  If you print anything, Hudson Printing can make it better, wander over to their site and learn more about what they do.  Download the press release here.


HP T330 Digital Inkjet Web Press

Marketing Automation and Content Marketing Survey

Take The Survey Button

Calling all marketing automation users, we want your input.  Smart use of marketing automation has the potential to be nothing short of rocket fuel for content marketers.  The challenge is, well, it’s a challenge to truly connect the technology with the content.

We wanted to dig into how marketers are thinking about this intersection of marketing automation technology and content and share the results with the larger community.  If you currently have a marketing automation solution, from any provider, and can spare about 3 minutes to share your thoughts, we will gladly provide a full copy of the results and report in October.  We expect to collectively learn some interesting things.

So if you’re a marketing automation user, appreciate your input and of course spread the world if you know others who might be interested in participating and receiving the results.  Survey start page can be found here.  Thanks in advance for your interest and support.

Marketing Automation Foundation

No, this is not an announcement of a new non-profit benefiting marketing automation companies. They all seem to be doing just fine for themselves. This is about the importance — and necessity — of doing foundational work to realize the full potential of marketing automation.

Marketing automation has exploded over the last few years. There’s more vendors than you can keep track of and a range of sizes and sophistication levels. A handful have been acquired/integrated/assimilated by the software titans like, Oracle and Adobe, while others are still out there feisty and independent. Adoption continues to grow and most marketers have at least kicked the tires on a marketing automation solution at some point.

We all love the vision of how marketing automation can make our lives better and easier; reducing manual work, dynamically generating highly–targeted messages, scoring leads and providing great measurement and analytics. Whether you’re already down the road with a marketing automation solution or thinking of getting started, it’s absolutely essential that you pause for a moment and assess your status in some core areas.

Accurate view of current state – Knowing where you are now in terms of communication and process is essential as a grounding element and baseline for creation of new communication plans.

Defined target profiles – Every business has a handful of core buyer profiles.  These profiles can be based on a wide variety of criteria, but defining your profiles is a requirement for developing targeted messages.

Understanding of prospect/customer experience – It’s difficult, if not impossible, to configure and automate an experience that you don’t fully understand. Clarification of the buying stages and dynamics will inform how and where you can best leverage marketing automation.

Clear messages – While this may seem like one of the most obvious areas to have crisply defined, surprisingly many organizations are murky on their messaging. Developing and defining your message is a distinctly human exercise, technology can help amplify your message, but the messages themselves need that human touch. Get clear on your messaging.

At Systym, we occasionally see instances of marketing automation backlash: marketers who have made the technology investment but are disappointed in the business impact. It’s rarely a technology problem, most often it’s a marketer who hasn’t done the important core work and is still using powerful technology the same way they were using a $29 per month email solution.

What we do at Systym is help marketers define relevant, insightful marketing experiences. The plans we create can then be used as a detailed blueprint for configuring a marketing automation solution. Our belief is a more relevant experience better serves the interests of both customers and businesses.

Regardless of how you do it, invest the time and effort in the foundational work. Marketing automation in some form is likely in your future, nail the basics and realize the full value of whatever flavor of marketing automation solution you select.

This post approved by the Marketing Automation Foundation

Marketing and IT – We’re All In This Thing Together

In a previous post on Marketing and IT collaboration, I talked about the need for enterprise marketers to establish strong relationships with their IT departments. Let’s face it, IT doesn’t always have a reputation for moving quickly, and with cloud service providers offering fast deployment, marketers can be reluctant to bring IT into the project. I thought about this again when I saw a recent quote from Forrester:

70% of IT leaders believe that marketing and IT departments have shared responsibility for marketing technology projects

That’s not a bad percentage, I thought. Then I saw the next Forrester quote in my news feed:

50% of marketing leaders believe that marketing and IT departments have shared responsibility for marketing technology projects

That’s an unfortunate gap, but I suspect this has something to do with a lack of transparency in IT project management. In my experience, IT departments don’t always manage communication with external stakeholders throughout cross-functional projects. Updates are provided in terms of IT methodologies such as “User Acceptance Testing occurs on <date>.”  Marketers feel as though projects move through a black box during the IT phase and what comes out the other side isn’t always what they expected.

A successful outcome depends on an attitude of mutual dependence between IT and Marketing. Such a symbiotic culture usually begins with leaders who are willing to demonstrate cooperation at the highest levels and reinforce mutual dependence in performance goals.